The Honourable Minister of State for the Commonwealth, Rt. Hon. Hugo Swire MP, recently gave an exclusive interview to African Voice to address the issue of the European Union referendum in the UK.
The UK has since been caught in a frenzy of doubts, campaign, and factions over whether Britain should remain in the EU or not. Oppositions have been fierce and formidable as personality both in and out of government have marshalled reasons for their stands. The Cameron government has similarly been very active in not only taking advantage of the direct campaign methodology to households but also involved international leaders, political leaders and leaders of thought to sway the people to their side.
The recent visit by the United States President, Barack Obama, also featured his opinions and possibly the United States interests in the presence of Britain in the EU. Charismatic Mayor, Boris Johnson, and indeed a lead campaigner for Brexit, is not convinced of the better future that Britain can come into were it to remain in the EU. Nigel Farage would also not be left out of the debate more so because of his strong political views on immigration.
But the plurality of the UK society including the very pronounced black and other ethnic minority may not be silently watching. Their interests would seem to lie with the group that promises best to address their inadequacies in the socio-economic system of contemporary Britain.
Rt. Hon. Swire has brought in a different perspective from the position of his portfolio in government to admonish every Commonwealth citizen to register and vote in a referendum that is scheduled for the 23rd June 2016.
His interview also smirked at the opposition, Brexit, dispelling the various reasons and notions given about what remaining in the EU will imply. Even the ethnic minority groups were not left out as he pointed out that they have a stake in the voting outcome.
African Voice Editor in Chief Mike Abiola and Peter Olorunisomo, News Editor were ushered into the office of the Rt. Honorable Minister of State for the Commonwealth at the Foreign and Commonwealth Office on Monday 23rd May, 2016, for an interview on the forth coming referendum on the EU.
Rt. Hon. Hugo Swire MP welcomed the team saying, ‘Listen, thank you for coming in. The reason I wanted to see you really was to ask you, and I’m sure you have done this already and don’t need to be asked, to draw your readers and listeners attention to the forthcoming referendum on the EU.’
‘I think the African diaspora level of registration is something like 61% which is way below the average which is something like 79%. And anything you could do to encourage your followers in terms of your readers and listeners to register would be great. It’s my argument that people should vote to stay in the EU but I will make that argument to you in a minute. I think the primary reason for this is to ask you anyway, regardless of how they vote, as no one has had a chance to vote on this issue since the mid-1970s and people like me, and no doubt yourselves, were too young to have had that opportunity. So it seems to me that this is genuinely, a once in a lifetime opportunity to have your say on whether or not Britain is within a reformed EU. It would be sad to squander the opportunity to have your say. Now I have heard the argument advanced by other diaspora groups that, somehow, this is an argument for them over there and so terribly complicated which doesn’t really affect our everyday lives. It’s my argument that it’s not true. If you have the right to vote here, the residency, you fulfil all the residency qualifications got in the Commonwealth or the UK, you have the right to vote in this referendum. And it effects each and every one of us in the same ways; whether you’re in the public sector, in the health service, if you’re a doctor or a nurse or running a small business, a shop or food distribution, whatever you may do; what is important is to stay with the British economy because if people don’t have any confidence in the British economy, they won’t spend any money, have any money, and that will affect everybody’s business. So the real question is what is in the best interest of the British economy? I would argue as does Mark Carney, the governor of the Bank of England, as does Christine Lagarde – the boss of the International Monetary Fund, as do many financial commentators, heads of government, and indeed the Prime Minister and the Chancellor of the Exchequer who co-authored an article today. We would all argue that Britain’s long term best interests are best served by staying within a reformed EU. It’s no good today this is some kind of esoteric theoretical argument for other people. This is an argument which has to be addressed by everybody because it affects everybody’s everyday lives; at home, in the work place, and the future of their children, and their children’s children. So it is a vote which we should all take part in. And it is absolutely critical that people do register before the 7th of June online or in any other way they deem fit. Because what we don’t want is people suddenly waking up nearer the time saying ‘oh I do suddenly realise this does affect me and my family’; and then they are not able to vote. They disenfranchise themselves because they haven’t bothered to get around to registering.
AV: Hon. Minister, the concern first from our community is how you continue to control migration from the EU, if we remain in the EU, and the African Diaspora sees you as blocking the opportunities of them getting jobs; and not just jobs but several other benefits. The EU is given priority over those from the Commonwealth.
Minister: Enshrined in the founding principle of the EU is the principle of freedom of movement within the EU. Though we are not part of the Schengen, we do have to accept the freedom of movement in the EU. But we do control our own borders. We do now decide as to who comes and who doesn’t come even if they are from the EU. So we do retain control of own borders. I think the key point here is, that if the UK exited from the EU, it is unfathomable to nearly impossible to believe that we would have to have some free trade agreement with the remaining EU. And the nearest one we can point to is Norway. We just have to accept the principle of free movement even though they are not part of the EU. So I believe that this would continue regardless of whether we were in or outside of the EU. But the idea that sum up the notion that if UK came out of the EU, we wouldn’t have any more EU immigration or EU free movement; we could purely look at other countries or commonwealth countries and completely relax the criteria for them coming into the UK, is I think, a fantasy. And I think it’s a dangerous fantasy because I think it’s encouraging some people to hope that they can bring over extended family members. It would be easier to do that. There is absolutely not a shred of evidence to suggest that is true. And people who are making that point really need to say on what basis they are making it. Have they discussed it with the Home Secretary? Have they discussed it with the other ministers? The answer to that is no. And, I think, that it is absolutely key in this argument, the idea that we can accept and do such people from outside the EU now provided they fit the right criteria. But there is absolutely no plan to alter that set of criteria for any other country outside the EU at present. So I do regret some of my colleagues have been suggesting somehow that if we came out of the EU, people could bring their families from outside the EU to live and work here. Others could get here and take jobs here. There is not a shred of evidence to suggest that, that is the policy of anyone. They have to answer this question – when many of the people in the Brexit campaign, in other words, when many of the people who want to leave the EU – people like Nigel Farage and many others – they’ve made, repeatedly the point that they don’t like the current levels of immigration. So what are they saying now, these people? Are they saying that they don’t like the levels of immigration from the EU but they would relax immigration from outside the EU? I don’t think they are saying that either because if they are, that is completely contradicting everything that they have been saying in the past. So I think you really have to nail this one and persuade your listeners and viewers to look at facts and not be persuaded by those who somehow are suggesting that exiting the EU would be easier for their relations and their friends to come here and work.
AV: A lot of Africans as well as those belonging to the commonwealth, have felt that over the years, the bond that exists as a commonwealth citizen making them a part has been de-emphasised by the migration doors open to the EU countries and the conditionality of Commonwealth citizenship sacrificed as preference for EU citizens affects their domestic and livelihoods. Are there assurances that can be proffered to them that being in the EU will also protect their interests?
Minister: The only threat to people who are in the United Kingdom is their livelihoods and their jobs and that involves economic prosperity of the UK. Now people have very short memories but most people will remember that when this government came in, first of all with the Liberal Democrats in the coalition, and now on our own, when we came in 2010, the British economy was on a precipice. The out-going Chief Secretary of the Treasury left a note on his desk saying ‘sorry there is no more money’. We are about to be down-graded by the IMF and other organisations. We were in a terrible financial state. Since then we’ve tried to rebuild confidence and the engine room that is the British economy for us to kick start it and keep it going. I don’t want anything to endanger that economic recovery. We still have high levels of household debts and other issues. Trading is proving difficult with the countries around the world because of their own circumstances. So it is not as easy as that, the British economy is doing much better than many other economies around the world and that means that people can afford to do the weekly shopping, can afford the holiday, can afford their mortgages. And that is all terribly important. The only reason that the diasporas; be they African or Bangladeshi or Pakistani or anyone else for that matter are likely to encounter threat is if there is a threat to the British economy. Now I’ve just said that if you look at what people are saying; the Governor of the Bank of England, head of the IMF, other financial commentators, that actually they do believe that the British economy would be threatened if we came out of the EU certainly in the short term.
The other issue is about the Commonwealth. I would concede, I think that in the last thirty to forty years, the United Kingdom has not concentrated as much on the Commonwealth as it should have. When we came in 2010, we said we wanted to put the ‘C’ back in the FCO (Foreign and Commonwealth Office) and since that time we’ve given much more attention to the Commonwealth. We’ve appointed one of our senior diplomats to represent us at the board of the Commonwealth as it is headquartered here in London. We do not have a High Commissioner.
We’ve supported Baroness Scotland, we are supporting her in the reform she is doing. We supported the Maltese during the last Commonwealth heads of government meeting, we are hosting the next Commonwealth heads of government meeting here in the UK in 2018, we supported the creation of the Commonwealth Enterprise and Investment Council, which is all about trying to create more jobs and trade within the commonwealth – we know it is cheaper for two commonwealth countries or companies to trade with one another to the tune of about 19%. We are going to host, for the first time, the Commonwealth Trade Ministers’ meeting in 2017. So we are concentrating much more on the Commonwealth. But there is a romantic idea out there that somehow we can get out of the EU and kick start a Commonwealth with free trade within the Commonwealth and I’m aware that if I go to these commonwealth countries, not a single one of them is saying ‘please we really want the UK to come out of the EU whether it is the Prime Minister of New Zealand, the Prime Minister of Australia or Prime Minster Trudeau of Canada. They are all saying they want Britain to stay in a reformed EU. And Prime Minister Modi has been very explicit in saying that he sees the UK as the launch pad for Indian companies into the EU; come out of the EU and may be the launch pad will move to Frankfurt or somewhere else, I don’t know. So all these are not saying we want to turn the clock back to the 1970s before we join the EEC when we had free trade of lamb from New Zealand They are saying no, we want Britain to stay at the heart of the EU to reform the EU because they have access to a market of over 500 million people. They believe that the UK presence in the EU suits their view of what EU should do in terms of free trade agreements and so forth. Somebody has yet to tell me of any serious international leader who is telling us that we are better off outside the EU.
AV: Hon. Minister, one issue of sympathy in the community is the fact that in the last few months, the importers of African foods have been experiencing difficulties importing foods into the UK and what we tend to hear is that it is because of the EU restrictions; and of course, the vote leave are also championing the cause that if we are out of the EU, African farmers will benefit because the EU is actually subsiding their farmers to the disadvantage of African farmers. Britain cannot do anything as it would have been her wish to support more because we are part of the Commonwealth, as we are in Europe, since Britain is in Europe. It is bound by EU laws.
Minister: You see, this is where, only too often, regrettably the Brexit campaign contradict themselves because if they are saying that African farmers are being disadvantaged by a common agricultural policy which gives subsidies to British farmers at the same time they are trying to persuade British farmers that they would be better off outside the EU because they would be able to give more subsidies straight from the central government. So on one hand they are saying to some, look because of the Common Agricultural Policy African farmers are being disadvantaged by the EU. And at the same time they are saying to British farmers we are going to continue these subsidies or give you more money than you are getting under the common agricultural policy. You can’t have it both ways. And if you are saying there is problem with some elements of African foods because of EU legislation, either you are saying the Brexiteers are saying we would lessen the rules and regulations on the import of food products which I think is a very interesting thing, and I haven’t heard that one before or if we are part of any EU free trade agreement, we would have to maintain our food, health and hygiene standards otherwise they will not allow us to export or re-export products from the UK into the EU. So, again, I am afraid, on closer examination, the argument doesn’t stack up.
AV: Hon. Minister, about a year ago when the issue of migration was really the main talk of tabloids, one of the things that cropped up was a differentiation that accounted for wages between people from different cultural settings in the UK and at the bottom of that rung was, for the same job, the African/Caribbean person was the least paid. It went on so much that the electronic media carried a research that showed that to hire a house, once you spoke with a British accent over the phone, you were invited to the office but once they saw that you were black or not white, you were not likely to be given the residence. I think there is a need to give assurance that if the people vote to stay these issues will be tackled as we have a large number of people who are eligible to vote in response to the benevolence of the government and the leverage to live good lives against such a wage situation.
Minister: Well I am surprised to hear that because, of course, we have introduced a minimum wage and this is a government that will be introducing a living wage which is an increase to the minimum wage. So anyone who is not getting the basic living wage, whoever is not paying them properly is falling foul of the law. That is this shouldn’t arise. In terms of the preference for non-Africans or non-Caribbean in terms of housing again there should be no discrimination. We have some extremely tough race laws and non-discriminatory laws and there is no, as far I am concerned, no hierarchy of acceptance in terms of who can access local authority and, obviously, one read about that in the 1950s with the immigration coming in from the Caribbean and some of those things that you read. People like Alan Johnson spoke about growing up in Notting Hill. Clearly there were racial tensions in those days. I am not aware that this is the case nowadays and there is no reason for it at all. You can provide me with some facts and I will have it looked into because it falls foul of every piece of legislation we have.
AV: Still on immigration, and talk about citizens of the Commonwealth who have been here for a while. Some under the guise that if they are part of the Commonwealth then they should not suffer visa restrictions. But now that these debates are in the air, the Vote leave campaigners are using that to say there will be blanket amnesty for over-stayers. The question is what is the value of being a Commonwealth citizens if those who have been here for long, not new applicants, are having difficulties or facing repatriation.
Minister: Let me address the issue of blanket amnesty straight on. I am not aware that some of these people are saying that and on what authority and the people who want us out of the EU are not government. Some of them are individuals even though some of them are in government so they have no backing to making that extraordinary claim. There is no change in terms of foreign national offenders returned to their countries of origin, looking very closely at over-stayers, having very tightly applied immigration laws. There is no change there as far as I know. I think the other issue that has commonwealth relevance – for a start, if you are a Commonwealth citizen and have residency, you are entitled to vote and those are the kind of people I am saying please register to vote by the 7th of June. But the commonwealth is more than about freedom of movement within the country. It’s about a collection of 53 countries, it’s a family but the idea that you can just have no border controls for countries as big as India, Nigeria, and Bangladesh and Pakistan is not something that has caught on as an idea with the Home Office and when we are trying to control our immigration figures, I think either a blanket amnesty or blanket visa to Commonwealth countries is not something which is being offered. But there is no bar to people travelling here from the Commonwealth. If they fit the right criteria of coming to work here. But I heard again of one of my ministerial colleagues suggesting that if we came out of the EU we would be able to give residence to huge amounts of Bangladeshi curry chefs. There is no evidence to suggest that at all. Unless, she becomes Home Secretary and changes the laws of the land but as things stand, people wishing to come here from outside the EU have to fit a certain number of criteria and there are no plans to water down the criteria.
